Fact 1
A God of unconditional love would never ever throw his creation into a pit of fire to writhe in unspeakable agony for all eternity.
You MUST remember this when reading the bible or qu'ran. If you don't believe this then I guess you could conceive of throwing your own children in a pit of fire JUST for being born and for not living their life the way you want them too.The whole idea behind the Old and New Testaments and the Qu'ran is to make you believe that you are a worthless, evil person and when you die you ARE going to burn in Hell for all eternity UNLESS you repent to their god or their Jesus and MAYBE if your lucky when you die you'll go to heaven. When the TRUTH of the matter is YOU, YES YOU create Heaven or Hell right here on Earth.
Fact 2
The Devil's favorite sin is vanity.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all penned by the same hand but it wasn't the hand of God, it was the hand of Satan for no other purpose than to pit man against man. And how he done this was he played on man's vanity. He went to the Jews and said "Hey YOU, YOU got it going on. Look at those people over there, THEY live like animals. But not YOU, YOU know 'what's up'. YOU are my chosen people and everyone else is wrong and therefore THEY are vile, nasty sinners!! and you will be doing my will if you can't convert them you kill them". Then he went to the Christians and said "Hey, YOU..."
And then he went to the Muslims and said the same thing.
And so western man has been killing himself every sense thinking that who ever kills the most people will be proven right. I guess this means if I walk up to you and shoot you in the head my God is more powerful than your God and therefore I am just and right in my actions.
Fact 3
The only purpose the Torah, Bible or Qu'ran serves is to enslave people psychologically.
It's all about power, power over other human beings. You must give 10% of everything you make and you must remain a loyal 'customer' to the synagogue, church or mosque for the rest of your life and the FEAR, GUILT and SHAME instilled in you from birth assures this. Remember you are evil just for being born.
Fact 4
The Torah, Bible and Qu'ran are lies wrapped in truth.
It has to contain some truth or you would never buy into it. So there is truth in these books. There are some good sound moral teachings in them but these things are only there to hide the lies. And the main lie is the God of anger and jealousy and his supposed son are going to make you burn forever and ever writhing in unspeakable, horrendous pain all because you are human.
BRING ON THE PAIN
If these holy books are the divine word of God then everything in them must be true because the divine word of God is immutable truth, therefore if we can find one false statement, non-truth, LIE whatever you want to call it then we can know for sure that they are not the divine word of God.
I know, I know, you're sitting there going "Man, are we going to have to sift through these voluminous tomes to try and find a lie. Read all this garbage just to try and find something that can be interpreted 100 different ways so in the end we wind up right back where we started which is in a state of confusion. I'd rather go back to sleep or believe in it just so I don't have to rock the boat or hurt my mom's feelings(or burn in hell)(and I put that in parenthesis to show how it is always in the back of your mind, 'Rule through fear'). Besides if it isn't all true it doesn't hurt to believe in it just to be on the safe side" as if to say 9-11 or the Witch burnings of old or -Fill in the Blank- didn't hurt anyone. Oh wait a second according to the bible people like NERO, who liked to feed Christians to the lions wasn't really an evil person. No, he's an "Agent of God" punishing bad Christians. So using that logic We know that Osama Bin Laden is really an agent of god and all the people who die by his hands, or anyone who is killed for that matter, are all BAD CHRISTIANS! So why are we trying to kill an agent of God? Shouldn't we be embracing him and showering him with praise. Finally someone who is going to kill all the evil sinners for God. I always new my soft spot for Adolf Hitler was justified I just had to read my bible. God bless them one and all. It brings a tear to my eye when I think how these people and so many others like them are unjustly demonized. But I digress... (I forgot I'm supposed to be debunking the bible not supporting it)
Where was I... Oh, yes the LIE in the bible. Well children it appears your not going to have to read the whole bible to try and find a real honest to goodness LIE(Thank God for that right ?). You don't have to read any further than the first chapter of the first book of the New Testament, which would be Matthew, to find what we are looking for. For according to Matthew the liar , the lineage of Jesus, from Abraham to Jesus, numbers 14. Hmm, well according to "The Quest Study Bible", a bible written with all sorts of annotations to try and shed some light and clear up some confusions all with the express purpose of helping people to swallow this crap, Matthew left out some generations between Abraham and Jesus to Make the number of generations equal 14. The sin of omission is a lie. They call it a literary device so that the number of generations would fit in with biblical numerology. I call it a lie. Because it is a lie. If Matthew has to start falsifying facts to try and make it all fit we can come to no other conclusions than "It's not true" If Jesus were in fact the son of god as prophesied by the Old testament then all the little details of his life would fit and there would be no need for LIES- I mean uh "Literary Devices".
Now I can hear all you Christians tearing your hair out and screaming for my blood. Which doesn't surprise me because all through history that's all you've ever done when someone points out your lies. You kill them. And Kill them horribly so as to silence anyone else who maybe thinking of coming forward. And once you've silenced everyone and have them going along with your story then you don't have to worry about subsequent generations because they'll automatically be indoctrinated with out any need for violence. And then when someone brings up the past you can always go "But we don't do that anymore" which I guess means "yeah we were once evil but now that we have every one buying into our lies automatically we don't have to be that evil which in turn makes us good." And the same holds true for Jews and Muslims but I digress once again, just let me say that when you worship anger and jealousy you get anger and jealousy in return, such were the events of 9-11.
But don't be so quick to get angry. The truth is indestructible. So if any of these religions are so right and so true what do they have to fear about me raising some very valid questions. After all we're talking about the resting place of your immortal soul , you have the right to question it. What kind of idiot takes someone else's word for it. What kind of idiot would believe a book just because someone told them too? Do you believe a used car salesman when he tells you the car you're looking at was owned by a little old lady who only drove it on Sundays? No you don't. And a car dealer just wants your money. What kind of lies do you think someone who is after your soul is capable of ?
Now let's look at some of the mental conditioning. First let's look at "The Beatitudes" (no it's not a rock band from Liverpool):
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Yep, after they die)
"Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted" (when they dream of the day they die and go to heaven)
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth" (after they are dead and buried in it)
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled"(after they die and go to heaven)
"Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy"(when they are dead and in heaven)
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see god"(and you can only see god when you are dead and in heaven)
"Blessed are the those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"(Heaven- A place for dead people)
First of all the Beatitudes were designed to make you feel like a failure, that no matter what you do if you go down this check list you are sure to be lacking in one of these aspects and therefore you are not worthy of the kingdom of heaven so you need to keep praying, keep giving your tithes, and maybe one day you'll finally die and go to heaven.
You see all three of these religions are based on the concept that you are a sinner, you were born a sinner and therefore you are evil. Your life must be pain and suffering and only after you die will you ever have any happiness. In other words they subvert true happiness by making you feel like you don't deserve it in this life. Christianity takes it one step further and throws in a double heaping of guilt by using the myth of Jesus Christ- "you think you're suffering look what Jesus went through for your worthless soul. You don't have the right to be happy but rest easy because in your suffering you can be just like Jesus. And that's just the thing the creators of Christianity want you to do- try to be like Jesus. I'll have more on that in a moment. They also create an unconscious striving for death which is why western man is so Heaven bent on destruction.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all created sin where there was none. Take lust for example. If it weren't for lust none of us would be here. That's the way God designed it. He made us lust so we would mate and reproduce, that's what keeps the whole thing going. All of nature lusts to reproduce. How can it be wrong only for humans?
Let's look at the consequences of lust. You lust for someone and some times we mistake lust for love. The church tells you that in order to be with that person you have to be married. O.K. there's nothing wrong with trying to cultivate a true loving relationship. So you marry this person, then you find out that you're not compatible for whatever reason. Maybe they're abusive, or child molesters, maybe they're nuts or maybe it's just a mutual decision that you don't belong together. SORRY! According to Jesus the only excusable reason for divorce is marital unfaithfulness. THAT'S IT! No other reason is excusable. Tough shit you're stuck and you'll just have to live the rest of you're life in misery without true love but remember Jesus suffered for you so it's the least you can do and don't worry too much because one day you'll be dead and your suffering will be rewarded in Heaven. And while we're on the subject, how many Christians do you know that have been married and divorced for reason's other than unfaithfulness? Maybe you're one. Well you can just ask for forgiveness and all will be forgotten. Just like with any other sin. Hell yeah! Sign me up I can do what ever I want to and Jesus will forgive me as long as I am sincere when I repent and just in case he doesn't think I'm sincere I'll give a little extra in the offering plate. Sin and repent, Sin and repent it keeps the church in business and in power. It almost sounds like religious people have no moral conscience but we know this is not true because they keep on repenting which means they have no moral conscience only 6 days a week. On the 7th day they become holy.
Let's look at the issue of abortion, one of the greatest contradictions in religious thought. If just being born makes you a sinner then why do good, God fearing religious people keep on reproducing? Don't they know they are defiling god's creation even more by continuously filling it up with more and more evil creatures of the flesh? Oh wait a second, they can't help it. They are just such helpless slaves to there evil carnal natures that they can't help but reproduce. Well then, ABORT the evil little critters. If abortion is murder, and if supposedly murdered people get a one-way ticket to heaven and if you really loved your child and you really loved your god then you would abort it right? RIGHT!? But ask any person why they had their child and they will say "Because we loved it and wanted to bring it into the world." This just proves that on an instinctive level you know that there is nothing wrong with procreation. Why then do you insist on trying to convince yourself and the rest of the world that it's the other way around? Because you've been brainwashed for thousands of years to believe this crap and you don't want to hurt your mom's feelings (or burn in hell).
Let's look at homosexuality. I don't agree with it. I don't understand it and like most people I think it's unnatural. But we are wrong. It is natural FOR SOME PEOPLE and just because you or I don't understand it doesn't make it wrong. I don't understand quantum physics either so does that make it wrong? Did God not make the homosexuals too? Do they not have a spark of the divine in them as well? Some people say "Well, their lifestyle goes against nature because it doesn't produce life." Well, what about people who are born sterile or barren? Are they unnatural and evil? Some say homosexuality is a choice, so are vasectomies and having the tubes tied. Are all these people evil? The bottom line is everyone and every thing is a part of nature and just because you don't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Everyone has the right to love and to be loved. It's that simple. And how dare you or anyone else try and take that away.
Let's look at some more of the teachings of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 5:38-42
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."
WHAT? DO NOT RESIST AN EVIL PERSON? LET THEM RAPE YOU, LET THEM HURT YOU, LET THEM TAKE FROM YOU, AND LET THEM KILL YOU!!!??? In other words "don't fight back" let the church, the government or who ever run all over you. And in your suffering you can be just like Jesus or any other martyr, another symbol for docile, cowardly, SLAVES!!! Good sheep, good little sheep...And where was this line of thinking for the Christians on 9-11?
Matthew 10:34-36
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn a man against his farther, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law 35 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household"
This all speaks for itself...
Those are just a few examples of the ridiculous philosophy and contradictions to human nature put forth in the New testament. The old testament and the qu'ran are no different and I will go threw some of these in later posts.
Now let's look at the whole concept of Hell. If someone puts a gun to your head and forces you to do something against your will then you are not operating under free will and therefore cannot be held accountable for your actions. How can human beings operate under free will with a gun pointed at their heads, the gun being "Worship me or else burn in hell"? They can't, therefore Christianity, Judasim and Islam have subverted man's free will by using fear as the main tactic. The other tactics are guilt and shame. Without your fear, guilt and shame these religions have absolutely no power over you. You keep them alive with the complexes the church invented and forced upon you. All to control you.
How many times have you heard of Yahway, Jehovah, Allah- what ever you want to call him being refered to as an angry and jealous god(we won't get into how a perfect being can display such imperfect emotions and let them rule him)? Well, when you worship anger and jealousy you get anger and jealousy in return, such were the events of 9-11 and the subsequent war, and such is so many of the conflicts that have plagued mankind down through the centuries. And it will continue to be this way until you realize you've been duped, you've been played, you've been had. All any side has to do is go "Look how those people behave, we will be doing God's work if we go kill them! Let's climb aboard our Sunday warships to go prey and do our religious doody all over the world screaming 'GLORY GLORY HAAAAAALLIBURTON!!'"
The main question you have to ask yourself is this- Is mankind better off since the inception of any of these religions? The answer is NO. Mankind is not better off with any of these religions. They cause more pain and suffering if only through emotional and mental guilt than guns, alcohol, drugs, pornography or anything else you can name. They set up a series of psychological complexes that only get worse over time. Look at our obsession with sex. This is only because religion has suppressed sexuality so therefore we become obsessed with it and it becomes a problem that just wasn't there before. They themselves have perverted and twisted something that can keep the world together.
If you want to create a truly depraved sexual monster cut off a piece of it's sexual organ when it is a newborn baby. This creates a deeply buried trauma associated with the natural sex drive. A very deep seated rage and fear because of that can never be resolved. (I'd say a castration complex that acts like a remote control for those who know how to operate it- oops I said too much I'm giving away all the black magicians' secrets) I think it operates something like this, the more you become sexually aroused the more you fear you might be castrated which would be the death of your bloodline- the death of YOU. So now you have a human being walking around with the head of his penis exposed, which makes him more prone to sexual arousal, which makes him scared he's going to lose his penis coupled with the guilt and shame from being told that to lust is to sin, and deep down he feels it, the fear of castration is what makes him think lust is wrong, put this all together and I'd say you have one confused being who's only outlet is excessive sexual behavior and/or violence or in other words 'violent sexual behavior'. This is where our obsession with sex and death comes from. INSANE, DIABOLICAL MADNESS. These religions are religions of self-destruction, destruction of everyone around you and the destruction of the environment and nature i.e. the world(more on that later).
Now let's take a look at the catholic church. The main driving force in Christianty, the very foundation of christianity is the catholic church. Which founded itself on violence and bloodshed or in other words- death and destruction. And I won't even go into the proliferation of pedophilia within the catholic church which in and of itself should be all the proof you need that somethings not right with this religion. Quick question: How many homeless, poor, and hungry people do you have to help to justify raping children? I'm just curious. Does Father Dickinson go to the pope and say "O.K. your holiness, I've helped X-number of people this week, can I rape one of those evil little born-in-the-flesh sinners now? Remember, I will be acting as an agent of God punishing those bad christians, a whole family of bad christians can be punished at one time because imagine how the rest of the family will suffer when they find out or even if they don't find out the parents will just torture themselves wondering where did they go wrong that their child for some unknown reason can't seem to live a normal happy life?"poop[sic] says "Jesus tells me You've done such a good job you can rape 2...or 1 twice! I'm personally down with threesomes ,but anyway..."
You have to ask yourself "Why would Jesus let child rapers proliferate his priesthood?" Oh wait a second I just answered that- He's punishing bad christians.
And you wonder what's wrong with the world...
JESUS IS A VAMPIRE
Jesus is a vampire that feeds on your fear, guilt and shame. Keep this in mind the next time you do a communion- In vampire lore you have to first invite the vampire in "Jesus please come into my heart." Next you have to be bitten by the vampire, this would be accepting him and his teachings. Then you have to drink the blood of the vampire but christians go even further and cannibalise him. If you encountered drinking blood and eating flesh in any other religious practice you would scream out at how evil that is.
And all this leads me to my main point- these religions are black magic. The blackest and most vile, heinous, evil magic I have ever seen. first of all the Occult is just depth psychology(the mind is a powerful thing) and all these religions use man's psychology against him, they've had thousands of years to perfect it. But let's look at something more tangible. in the Occult any ritual that uses blood is considered black magic. And all through these so called holy books you have their god screaming out for someone's blood. Nothing more than a blood sacrifice can appease this god and it's all through out these religious teachings. And we carry out these sacrifices today but we disguise it as WAR, but we all know that we're just punishing bad christians or bad jews or bad muslims. And whoever can kill the most people are the righteous ones chosen by god to deliver the rest of the world from sin.
And one last thing to ponder for now- If you're not a Jew you're goyiam. If you're not a Christian you're a sinner and if you're not a Muslim you're an infidel. Each one of these religions are nothing more than the Devil's favorite sin- Vanity.
12 comments:
You say much without saying much. I commend you for having the guts to speak your mind, while I “un”-commend you for saying so little.
Your assumptions are lacking, and you build upon those lacking assumptions.
Examples, you say you want examples? You can’t paint a whole peoples, or belief, based on a example of a few.
Imagine, imagine, imagine,
If that where an acceptable debating point, there would be nobody, no-one, no philosophy, no train of thought, nothing that was put forth (including your heaven on earth supposition) that would stand up.
There’s nothing “evil” about any of the world’s religions. There is evil people that use said religion. There is much evil in people that have no moral compass.
BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? There are evil people in this world that will use ANYTHING!!! They’ll use Christianity, Islamism, Buddism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Socialism, Communism, Capitalism, or any GODDAMN “ism” you can think of. People will use anything. Because, no matter what you think, people are basically greedy, they need “something” to keep them honest.
It’s all fine and dandy to say/think we can reason with anybody, but that’s just puking in a fan. It matters not how right we are, how just our point is, how much rightneous is on or side, there are some that just don’t give a DAMN!
I appreciate your resistence in being a sheeple. But, it’s easy to become that which you despise, if you’re not careful.
Read up, do a little more research, get your facts straight, and try it again. You’re close, but not quite there.
I said much without saying much? Did you read your post?
You said much just to tell me not much. you said much which didn't mean much just to tell me my facts weren't straight which wasn't telling me much because you didn't point them out as such. So much for your BS which isn't much but I'll print it out and use it as mulch.
I can’t speak for “Door” but I’d like to look at your suppositions.
I’ll start with “Fact 1”
”The whole idea behind the Old and New Testaments and the Qu'ran is to make you believe that you are a worthless, evil person “
I don’t know about the Qu’ran, but I don’t see the NT doing what you charge. Sure it may point out our faults, but that’s the fundamental basis of self-improvement, i.e. recognizing our weakness and striving to be a better person. Just because we can recognize the basic human failings of “most humans” doesn’t mean we’re admitting we’re worthless. On the contrary, we’re doing what most in the “psychology” business would have us do when trying to better ourselves. What can possibly be wrong with, as a person, as an individual, confronting your faults, and striving to be better? If you are one of the rare who don’t posses those faults, all the better, but most of us fall within that vast “glob” of regular people, with regular faults, with regular hopes, with regular aspirations, and most importantly, a regular since of our own faults and limitations”
A few facts about circumcision.
Circumcision substantially reduces an infant´s chances of getting a urinary tract infection (UTI) during the first year of his life, UTI´s are becoming increasingly difficult to treat (see here for a discussion). Cancer of the penis - that effects xxx men in a thousand - is essentially eliminated in circumcised males. Research shows that males who are circumcised have a lower risk of getting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). In addition, partners of circumcised males are less likely to contract vaginal infections (e.g. yeast infections).
Just a few reasons why this is a good practice.
Now you can argue that it’s all a lie, and you may be correct. But who are we to believe? It seems a small price to pay, A little snip here, a .little snip there, kind of like a hair cut or finger nail clipping.
The alternative is to believe it’s all a lie. Them Bastards!!!!
What’s a parent to believe?
Hmmmm, on the other hand, it seems there’s a practical reason behind the biblical reason… Go figure!
And so western man has been killing himself every sense thinking that who ever kills the most people will be proven right
Nope, there is nothing in that statement that is correct, according to our (US) history anyways. Give an example.
I suggest that any example you give will have nothing, or little, to do with religion. It will have much to do with greedy people wanting greedy things.
A little snip here and a little snip there. Let's mutalate a newborn baby and then when it is old enough to comprehend let's tell it it's Dirty, tainted goods, it needs to be cleansed of sin. You are evil just for being born, for sin is evil and just being born is a sin. Don't argue with me child these are the divine words of God who are you to question it? If you don't like it maybe we'll cut off your nipples. Men don't have any natural need for nipples and with the advancements made in modern science, such as baby bottles and enfimal, women don't need them either. So let's just snip them off. A little snip here and a lttlei snip there do it while they're babies and they'll never remember the pain. As if to say expeiencing the pain isn't a bad thing as long as it's repressed. How bout those earlobes? you don't need those or the tip of your nose. Just like fingernails you say well I personally use my fingernails to help me pick things up and to scfratch ithcy places but toenails and the other hand, we don't need those, let's just yank them out. Most people have difficulty keeping their toenails clean neat so let's just yank them out. Oh wait a second medical science hasn't told us yet that nature was wrong for giving us these things so maybe we better leave those things attached just in case we find out later down the road that we need them. Maybe in the mean time if we don't need them nature will remove them naturally...
Western man doesn't just mean the U.S. but if you want one example I refer you back to my original article where I mention the witch burings of old, which is to say the Salem witch trials. Which is a good example of people trying to better themselves in the name of religion.
Quick question, I wonder how many people in the armed forces of the world will telll you they are serving God & country?
You totally ignored the point about circumcision. Which was, Dr. Gemini, that medical science has said, backed by actual data, that it’s healthier. No where has medicine claimed that the cutting off of nipples is healthier. As a matter of fact they say it’s much healthier for a mother to breast-feed. It’s been proven to boost a newborns immune system. It’s common knowledge, passed on to all expecting mothers. There also seems to be physiological reasons for toenails, but I get the point you were trying to make.
There’s nothing wrong with being skeptical of what some medical experts say. But unless you’re willing to invest time and energy into learning every subject, at some point you have to rely on people who make it their living to learn about such things. Heading a doctor’s advice is no different then heading the advice of a mechanic, lawyer, accountant, plumber, etc. It seems, you have a problem with the procedure because you feel it’s rooted in religion. It may be, but the majority of doctors do not consider themselves religious, there are to many of them who consider themselves as totally unbiased and skeptical to blindly accept a practice that they didn’t feel was rooted in sound medicine.
That being said, just because I or others, believe something’s that seem to be backed up by actual science, doesn’t mean we’re going to blindly accept any pronouncement from the medical field or any other field (no matter how much you may believe that in order to support your theory).
On the “western man and killing” point you made, maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.
I took you to be saying, “most killing is the cause of religion”. Which is demonstrably false.
Also, killing in the name of religion is not purely a trait of western man. The Africans and Asians have also killed in the name of religion. As a matter of fact, every “excuse” used by people to get that which they covet, has been used by most races and peoples at one time or another throughout human history.
I suggest that if the religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam had never been, you’d still have just as much killing in this world.
But I do agree with you that some have used religion to advance their evil intentions. Just as some have used any made up excuse to advance their self-interest.
But all that being said, it’s a natural state of people to be so frustrated and at time enraged because others can’t see what is so damn clear to ourselves. It’s so easy to simply think, “they don’t understand, because they’ve been brainwashed, or their stupid, or their ignorant.” It explains oh, so, much, and relieves the frustration, because it’s much easier to our own minds to believe people just don’t understand, than to believe they maybe do understand, have considered many points, went through much self-reflection, investigation, educating themselves, and came to a totally different point of view.
Yes, that’s the easy, most comforting way to assuage our frustration but it’s also dangerous and intellectually lazy. The danger lies within being so sure of our beliefs, that we dismiss out-of-hand points of view we think we can “peg-hole” into certain areas without having to actually confront those point of views. It’s the ultimate self-justification to stop learning.
You've totally MISSED the point Dr.Blamin. But you are only helping my argument by suggesting that medical science knows better than nature, which I pointed out in my response to you. Do a google search under 'negative effects of circumcision ,DR.BLAMIN, if you want proof from medical science. Have you ever heard of the negative effects of repressed childhood traumas, harmful things we experienced that we seem to have forgotten or maybe your field of medical expertise doesn't cover those things because they don't support your claims. I am well aware the studies that say it is healthier but let me reiterate what Isaid in my last response. Maybe we shouldn't be cutting these things off because medical science may find out later on down the road that we need them and if we don't need them nature will weed them out NATURALLY. Can you understand that Dr.Blamin. And it does seem to me that you are going to blindly except it because it's coming from medical science. I am not suggesting that killing in the name of religion is a HOLY western trait but I can't speak to the africans or the asians becuase I am a western man. I can only speak to western society because it is what I know. And I would agree that there would probally be just as much killing in the world without these religions but these religions seem to make most people feel justified in what they are doing. Example, in the old testament people are stoned to death for working on the sabbath. If it weren't for religion there would be no such prohibition. In our own war on terror we are using our religions it's the christians and the jews against muslims. When as far as christians are concerned they are suppose to be turning the other cheek. But christians are forever and a day hypocrites. But this is all stuff I'll be bringing up in other post.
OK, I took your suggestion, Oh Magus Gemini, and researched “negative effects of circumcision”.
There are many different angles that could be taken to refute what is put forth, not the least of which seems to be the “fringe” element of those taking your position. It seems, that the main reason against is the basic supposition that religion is the guiding force for circumcision.
It’s a “given” that when talking pure science, religion shouldn’t be used as a reason or argument. But it seems the sources I read that are against Circ, use religion as the reason, no the basis of their argument against. They really never attempt to refute the very real medical reasons for Circ.
To be fair, they do go into what they ”perceive” to be psychological reasons, but give very little in the way of controlled scientific studies which is the basis of most scientific reasoning.
You said: “I am well aware the studies that say it is healthier but let me reiterate what Isaid in my last response. Maybe we shouldn't be cutting these things off because medical science may find out later on down the road that we need them and if we don't need them nature will weed them out NATURALLY”
“Maybe” is the key word in that statement. Maybe a parent that’s faced with doing what’s best for their child has to rely on the information available, not a bunch of “mayby’s” and make the best decision, that’s in the best interest of their child. Ya, see Magus Gemini, as human beings that are trying to do the best we can, we have to rely on info available.
Your scenario, would have us believe that 96% of doctors that believe Circ. Is in the best interest of the health of the child (I’m sorry, it’s actually 95.8% - I exaggerated) are purposely ignoring information that’s contrary to their practice. Most Doctors don’t work that way. Even though it’s popular culture to believe that Dr’s are just in it for the money, many are in it to try and do good, or to learn more, or to challenge themselves.
Don’t get me wrong, if compelling evidence against Circ. ever comes to light; I’ll consider it like any other evidence put forth.
In my mind, the most compelling argument you make is the one of “nature”.
Maybe, civilized man, is not meant to live like “savages” (that’s not to say your original supposition is wrong…). Did nature ever mean for us to cut our hair, or nails? Did nature ever intend for us to wear shoes, or live in a controlled environment? Did nature ever intend for us to sleep 8 hours a day, work 8 hours a day, and have 8 hours of leisure? Did nature ever intend for us to do anything but survive?
If you admit that there’s a “higher power” or “powers”, is it not feasible, that man would advance and no longer have to live like savages? Maybe the Higher Powers intended to observe how far we can advance.
If you believe we should be living like “nature intended” then you must believe the “higher powers” never intended for us to advance ourselves in our humanity. Because nature can be a severe, final, vicious “thing”. Hell if pure nature was in charge, we wouldn’t have the time, nor energy, nor technology, to even be having this debate, hell, we wouldn’t have time to “think” about such things because our total energy would be focused on survival.
I ran out of room, let me finish.
You said: “ And it does seem to me that you are going to blindly except it because it's coming from medical science.”
That’s exactly why I wrote the last two paragraphs in my 10/3/08 post.
You also said:
“And I would agree that there would probally be just as much killing in the world without these religions but these religions seem to make most people feel justified in what they are doing”
You missed the whole point of what I was saying, which is “it matters not what the reason is”, a reason will be found.
Instead of railing against what you “think” the cause of all evil may be, you might be better served in focusing your energies on having human beings acting, I don’t know, more human maybe?
That would start with ridding ourselves of the contempt we may feel for our fellow human beings; and most importantly ending and ridding ourselves of the covetousness, we feel towards or fellow man. NATURE would suggest that covetousness is, natural(?), (just observe “nature” if you doubt me).
Regardless of what you may believe, most humans only want what is best. Well at least, most civilized humans. Those that are purely driven by “nature” will wait until the mother leaves her nest, and take what they can, while she’s gone
Thanks for acknowledging my Magus status but flattery will get you nowhere. Maybe one day I'll let you kiss my ring.
So let me get this straight, your position is that man and his intellect is superior to Mother nature? No,no, you must mean that God is superior in his intellect. I'll give you that one. But nowhere in the bible does God say circumcision is for health reasons but that it is to symbolise God's covenant with Abraham. Absolutely no mention of hygiene. And there is too much evidence available through modern science, seems how common sense is not enough for you, that suggest that the negative psychological effects far out way any physical health benefit. Your using the FACT, and to be fair it is a fact that it may be PHYSICALY HEALTHIER, is nothing more than modern man trying to justify an out dated barbaric religious myth because modern man is scared that if he goes against the divine word of God, a.k.a.The Bible, and stops the practice of genital mutilation he is going to burn in Hell for all eternity.
Here's something for you to think about, why don't you let your children grow up and then make the decision for themselves at least they'll be old enough to have it done using anaesthetic and they won't have a buried emotional trauma that can never be resolved which in turn, as medical science has shown, causes them to be more prone to violence. Which is one of the problems that plague our society which has it's foundation in- wait for it- RELIGION!!
And in case you haven't noticed it's kinda the point of my whole blog is to have humans wake up and realize where there propensity towards evil comes from. And maybe they will start acting, I don't know, MORE HUMAN!! Do you really think mutilating your child's genitals is acting human? Of course you do and that's the problem. And you feel justified in acting inhuman towards your own children because your Bible tells you so.
And I do believe that man is supposed to evolve but he is supposed to do it in harmony with nature not against it. And the bible and just about everything it teaches (remember there has to be some truth in it for you to believe all of it) goes against nature. Because it is of evil design with evil intentions. But don't take my word for it just look around you.
Is there anybody out there?
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